I hold a C & R FFL, and have since 2008 making this my 5th time receiving the renewal paperwork. I originally applied for it on the advice of a gun buddy at work who used his to buy several interesting mil-surp firearms, but have never used it. At only $30 for three years I figured it would be a good thing to get. Well, I don't have the disposable funds he has to buy firearms at will. The only real reason I have kept it to this point was in the wake of Kommiecticut sweeping gun control (unconstitutional/intolerable acts) post Sandy Hook 2014, a C & R is the only way a private citizen can purchase directly from the Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP). Otherwise the purchase has to go through a standard FFL as a normal gun purchase. Because of my sportsman's club affiliation, I have access to FFL services free of charge, BUT... the state will have their hooks in such a sale adding to their registry of firearms and their owners. The CMP transaction directly to a C & R kinda bypasses that. The problem is, having and using the C & R means you are subject to scrutiny and premise search by the ATF goon squad. I can't think of any federal alphabet agency I hate more that the ATF, therefore I am once again entertaining the idea of not renewing. If an agency can call a chunk of metal a firearm using unrealistic definitions and circular logic in order to simply confuse the firearms public resulting in criminal prosecutions, then there is nothing I want to do with such assholes. Any firearms purchased under a C & R become an official "collection" with record and storage requirements much like the inventory of a gun shop. They will fuck you hard if you make an innocent paperwork mistake. God forbid if you happen to sell one of those collection firearms. There is no hard and fast number of firearms you can sell per year before they determine you are engaging in an illegal firearms business. The one time I did attempt to use my C & R was at Cabela's to purchase a qualifying mil-surp rifle, but they "refused" to honor my license or make the sale because they "didn't want to get involved" whatever the fuck that meant. Below is the redacted renewal form and instruction sheet.
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| C & R Renewal Form page 1 (REDACTED) |
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| C and R Renewal Form page 2 (REDACTED) |
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| C and R Renewal instruction sheet page 1 |
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| C and R Renewal instruction sheet page 2 |
Since my town does not have a standing police force, a copy must be provided to the 1st Selectman's Office as a CLEO (Chief Law Enforcement Officer). Every time I renewed previously, the secretary has no idea what I am turning in or what she is supposed to do with it. Yes, each time is like the very first time because she has been a scatterbrain for years. I told her I don't care what she does with it, I provided it as required. I'm sure if the ATF went to town hall looking for proof I made notification there would be none. Just another excuse to prosecute an FFL.
So, I am looking for advice from my readers. I have until January 1st to renew. Leave your thoughts in the comments. As it stands right now, unless someone can come up with a super compelling reason to renew, I am going to forfeit my license. My wife always says once you have it to keep it, because it may be impossible to get in the future. Yeah... don't care.
Do NOT renew. Walk away!
ReplyDeleteI think my advice is to not renew the license. Mainly because as you say, the atf can enter at will and do what they want whether you want them to or not. On youtube is a person calling himself the Armed Scholar. He has a lot of videos talking about gun cases in court, and I seem to recall one where he talked about ffl holders. But unfortunately I could not find that one.Good luck with whatever you decide.
ReplyDeleteI had at one time also considered getting my C&R license, for pretty much the same reasons that you did. The ability to get military guns sent directly to my own home, without paying for a FFL dealer to handle them, and to perhaps save a bit on commissions, from time to time. Since my first carry gun was a P64, the attraction was there.
ReplyDeleteBut the same reason that you are deliberating the renewal now is why I never followed through with it in the first place.
I am a lousy record keeper, and I hated the thought that the BATFE thugs could drop in and ask to review my records, and just snoop around my place, at their leisure. And this was several years ago when I actually didn't realize how corrupt the BATFE had become.
The decision ultimately is yours, of course, but it comes down to a weighing of the pros and cons. What advantages are there in keeping your C&R license active? We of course know the reasons for getting rid of it, and they are many. But that doesn't mean to automatically get rid of your license. There were legitimate reasons for getting it, and those reasons may still outweigh those for getting rid of it. At least now, you have had it for awhile, and can make an intelligent choice.
Either way, I hope that it works out for you, and you always must maintain what some concerned people call op-sec, but what I call common sense.
Your decision should be based on whether you think the ATF will get better in the future, or worse?
ReplyDelete(That should be a no brainer!!!)
I had a C & R three different times. That was 10 years ago but I recall that they could only audit you once per year with that license. They could not continually harass you like they can regarding NFA items. However, we all know that they do whatever they want. In addition, the form has information that, unless things have changed, were not required by law. In other words, if you are not going to renew then let it lapse and don't turn anything in. Don't sign their form. Just let it lapse. Things could have changed but that was the law then. That's my advice.
ReplyDeleteWhat are the consequences for non renewal? Might that attract attention and trigger a "final interview" to collect your records even if you have not used the license? Just curious and thinking worst case scenario.
ReplyDeleteWill non renewal trigger a visit to close out "inventory" even though you've never used the license. Just worst case scenario thinking.
ReplyDeleteId say no. the money to an ffl is worth it if the ATF gets a burr under the saddle towards you for some fake reason. They do not play fair so I would put that as reason 1 to let it lapse.
ReplyDeleteBut you might have a different calculus.
Pro or Con as to renewal? Good points above.
ReplyDeleteAs to the village idiot secretary and Town Selectman, can you not just give the renewal form to your County Sheriff?
- Grumpy
@Anonymous: "As to the village idiot secretary and Town Selectman, can you not just give the renewal form to your County Sheriff?"
ReplyDeleteKommiecticut did away with all vestiges of county government in the late 1980's. The county sheriff's were political offices that had little to do with law enforcement and more to do with graft and corruption. Our county lines are nothing more than imaginary lines on a map that the TV weather people use to show storm track and alerts.
I've had a C&R three times, going back to 2000 and the heyday of milsurp firearms.
ReplyDeleteEvery time there is a Democrat in the White House I let it lapse because that's when the ATF shifts to the Asshole Mode and it's one more way to put distance between them and me.
That and it seems every seller has their own idea of what a C&R firearm is or is not, despite ATF guidance. I've had more than one seller tell me P-64 is not C&R "because it uses 'modern' ammunition."
I remember that you had the option to either have them come to your place or you could take you purchases to them at the Federal Building. That was what I was gonna do.
ReplyDeleteI missed the renewal deadline due to a debilitating injury. At that time, I didn't have any purchases so I didn't follow up. It's been years now.
I used it for the discount at certain gunsmith supply stores. And I never had luck on face to face purchases with it. But a sheaf of letters got me on a lot of mailing lists....
Was it hand select Turkish Mausers for 54.99?
Your already on a list so it depends on if your going to use it. The ATF is cracking down on FFL holders for the littlest of mistakes so the numbers are down, but they according to the story I read always trend down when commies are in control of the goobermint.
ReplyDeleteAs others have stated above, if you DO NOT renew then you are supposed to submit all your records to BATFE.
ReplyDeleteI've had a C&R for 12 years. I used to collect but finances dwindled so for the last two renewals, I've only bought 2 old guns to entertain myself with.
I would renew. It costs very little to keep it and the BATFE know who you are already so don't worry about it. You may incur more curiosity from them if you don't renew.
I live in Tennessee. Private party gun purchases and sales do not need to involve the state or fedgov. So they don't. GTFO. Seriously, stop putting up with this bullshit. Your job isn't that great, you'll find another one. The weather there sucks. Your house isn't that nice. Your neighbors aren't really that great, they won't miss you after you're gone... vote with your feet and gtfo. I left New Yawk 8 years ago, dunno why I waited so long.
ReplyDeleteGet
The
Fuck
OUT!!!
@Anonymous: I have wanted to leave Kommiecticut since 1991, when they imposed the temporary 2 year income tax we still pay 31 years later. It is my wife that refuses to leave. I told her if she were to die, in between making her funeral arrangements, I would hold a massive yard sale and get the house listed and start showing. The only other option would be to leave her, but that would just be stupid on so many levels. Tennessee is on my list of places to go. As a damn yankee, I fit in anywhere in Dixie much better than here in libturd asshole land. And I don't subscribe to or vote for blue state bullshit!
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